OK About This Guild Leadership Stuff

[Sirion]

Our recruiting policy is changing soon, from now on people have to be able to kill one of our better pvpers (Ceregon, Chubz, Nyan, Verra, etc.) to gain membership. Talked to a few of the officers about it, and they are sick of inviting people just because they are friends of guildmates.

[Supreem]

[Eirene]

I'm literally at the point where I'm about to say "Fuck it" and leave on my own accord.

I don't want to "re-build" a guild. It takes too much goddamn work, time and involvement. I don't have time in my life to spend 24/7 making sure everyone is happy in the guild.

Will brought up a good point about making guild raids mandatory. However I'm not sure if its feasible w/our current membership. A lot of people are in different time zones etc.

Chris brought up a lot of good points about current old schoolers about ready to jump ship.

It's just WoW is a different game. We can't just make a name for ourselves based on inviting fuckheads and newbs and run them through pve instances 20+ times. We have to be mature, be competitive, be humble and have fun while doing all these sorts of things in game either PVE or PVP.

Right now, I am really ed grouping with all guildies in 1 instance. I can't stand the ounce immaturity that spews out of their mouths while we're trying to kill Rend and half wipe to him because they weren't focusing at hand. I had to tell 1 member to STFU for constantly harassing and bagging on 1 member and he got offended and left the raid. This type of childish actions absolutely makes me vomit of what this guild has become.

I made a promise to myself not to take over in WoW. I had enough drama in DAoC for a lifetime. If I leave the guild in WoW, you can take my DoG access away. I just don't want part of the chaos anymore.

[Supreem]

If we lose you kim we are fucked..... I dont think we need to "re-build" our guild I think we need to do two things:

1. Boot the fuckheads

2. Strengthen our ties with alliance guilds.


I'll elaborate on my second point.. The first one is obvious.

We dont have enough dedicated 60s to pull off these huge raids. (especially after we boot the fuckheads) We need to work with our alliance to accomplish the big acheivements. We need a WoW alliance board and we need to make sure the officers of our ally guilds get in it. We need to start using the calendar to plan big raids. We need to make sure that our allys are actually attending the planned events. Whats the point of an ally guild if they dont bring anyone to the raids. We need to make sure that our ally guilds are in the horde channel and we need to start using it to schedule raids. We need to remove the ally guilds that are not helping and look for guilds that will help us. This second point is key to the success of our guild in the end game.

People say oh its different than DAoC blah blah blah.... Whatever. If you have an alliance that is dedicated to working together we can get shit accomplished.

What can we do to accomplish this? We need to create the WoW alliance board and push the officers of our ally guilds to get on it. Then we need to schedule a big raid well in advance. Check to see that atleast one member from each ally guild is present. The guilds that have noone present will be removed from the alliance and we will look for new guilds to take their place.

I would love to take lead on this but I am not 60 =( Does anyone wanna step up and strengthen our alliance?

[Bulor]

actually.. i don't think booting everyone will do good.

Honestly if you want to fix the current state of the guild on WoW.

It would be to run mandatory raids 2x per week.

Not only will it improve commcation with each other, aswell as getting to know each other more. But it will train for Battlegrounds and PvP.

And from the raids you will discover who are the dedicated and the pricks.

If people don't show, or post up that they are not showing, boot them, fuck them.

[Sirion]

The problem with running "dedicated" and "mandatory" guild raids, is that all the instances except BRS are max'd at 10 players. It seems to me that all this shit comes from people's desire to do instances. I'm fairly certain if you said in guild chat "Hey we are PvPing in Hillsbrad, anyone that wants to come is welcome" half the people complaining won't show up.

The bottom line here is that BWC picked this server because they like PvP and because PvE gets boring after a while, especially when it's the exact same thing every time you do it (instances seriously remind me of Baal Runs in diablo 2 except it's for items rather than exp). I think the initial raids you should start leading should be PvP in nature. One, it will allow you to see how good or shitty people are in an environment where it's going to actually matter for your primary purposes here. Second the people that are here to have fun and build community and play with guildmates will come, the people that feign community will decline and then come and whine about no guild activities. I'm not saying spend 5 hours a night pvping, but it seems to me most people just want to do instance runs to get phat lewts, and you guys aren't here to get phat lewts, you guys are here to kill people.

The alliance boards seems like a good idea as well. If you decide to do it, I will make sure that at least one other officer from my guild joins it.

[Bulor]

so why not get a large guild raid togther, and charge into the other realms towns, and start fucking shit up?

[Sirion]

Yes, that's what will show you who is here for the guild. There is nothing to gain from PvP right now other than fun, community, and relationships. If the people bitching so loudly about leadership opt not to come to the majority of these PvP raids, which ONLY benefits the guild's community, and not their wallets or their gear, then you know what they are here for.

I'm not saying don't guild raid instances, that needs to be done too. But if you do 2 or 3 pvp raids for every pve raid, then it might just show you guys who is here for friends and pvp, and who is here to mooch loot.

[Bulor]

i can tell you right now, that if i ever join WoW.. it's purly, and only.. to mooch all the loot i can.

[Twystyd]

I think the initial raids you should start leading should be PvP in nature.

I brought this up as well. My groups have been raiding alliance the last two nights (Arathi, Strangle) and we have had a blast. I had a half dozen tells saying people wish they were there. Here is a suggestion to keep you all occupied. Sack up and go kill shit, this is a PvP server. This guild could use the practice all the way to the top and nothing is more fun.

Derek, I tend to agree about the DoG and the alliance boards. I like the current state of the DoG but I'm tossing stufstuff on the table. Barbos and I can always create more private boards. A few tweaks we may be able to make to the boards are -

1) An area that shows whos on TS/Vent
2) A crafters list (thread would do here)

Kim, we talked a lot last night and I want to catch you on AIM. I hit 43 last night and did not log until 1:30. Like I said last night, there are a handfull handfule it would suck to lose if the guild crumbles and you are one of them, QQ.

Last but not least, do we need to add Pigvig to DoG?

[Rhuac]

I think the initial raids you should start leading should be PvP in nature. One, it will allow you to see how good or shitty people are in an environment where it's going to actually matter for your primary purposes here. Second the people that are here to have fun and build community and play with guildmates will come, the people that feign community will decline and then come and whine about no guild activities.

Very good idea and points. In fact I wouldn't mind starting something like this up every couple nights at the least. I'll make general announcements in the guild and I'll keep tabs on who shows up at least occaisionally. I'm always up for stirring shit up with alliance. I'll just change where we're fighting depending on our numbers at the time.

[Tingtong]

It's just the lax recruiting thats all. We don't have leadship issues we have PvE Issues. Frankly were not VV Raiding Guild. Half of our members are whiners and morons who want us to be a VV Raiding Guild so they can benifit themselfs. You can't lead a parade with these people let alone a raid. The problem isn't leadership it never was, it's membership. Truthfully I don't give a FUCK about raiding untill I know there is going to be PvP.

I know I haven't been playing with you guys very long in WoW or have a Level 60 yet so take my opinion with a grain of salt cause I may not see they day-to-day chat etc..

But I can tell you the whole time I was leveling I had to listen to people argue and whine. I finally just turned my guild chat off. Just gave me a bad attitude.

[Bulor]

Lineage2 server ftw!?

[Keabit Guinness]

I like what Ting said!

[Phineas]

I'd like to post the perspective of the issue from someone who is probably considered to be "dead weight" as far as DoG access goes.

I am by no means a leader in the traditional sense. This is mostly due to my being exceptionally lazy, as I really don't want to do the necessary research to understand game mechanics and maps that allow one to effectively tell others how to play. I like to consider myself more of a Morale Officer. I'd much rather make the occasional funny comment than have to tell ten fiercely independent, prideful, and socially-inept MMORPGer's what to do over a period of time.

Leading a raid of any size in a typical MMORPG is akin to trying to herd cattle into a boxcar using a small length of uncooked pasta.

I simply don't have the patience for it, nor do I care if people think that makes me "unqualified" to be an officer in this guild.

I wasn't made an officer because I wanted to lead, I was made an officer because I went out of my way to make sure that the leaders of the guild knew that I cared about the welfare of the guild and that I was unselfish about my own personal gain as opposed to the growth of the guild itself.

I would much rather help a guildmate get an item that benefits his ability to provide a useful role to the guild than to camp an uber item for myself. I like seeing other people feel like they've accomplished a goal. If I can help them do that, then I am happy to do so.

My personal opinion is that negative people aren't fun to be around, either in real life, or in cyberspace. I'd much rather have a guild full of friends who want to see each other succeed than a bunch of strangers bonded only by the accuracy in which they can memorize statistics in a database.

Game systems will come and go. Games will come and go. But in the end, we'll all still be here because we're friends. And that's why I play these games with this guild.

I love everyone of you asshats, and the only reason I'm even playing WoW at all is because I missed laughing at guild chat nightly. I'm still not even sure I like the game.

That said, clearly some restructuring is in order.

There's a reason why you never ever contramand orders given from a superior officer in front of troops. If you disagree with something someone says, take it to tells, or keep it amongst the officers. Arguing in guild chat isn't fun to listen to, and it kills the morale of the lower levels who begin to wonder if it will be this unfun when they're at raid level.

I think a heirarchy change would be a good start. Leave the high muckety mucks in charge (Super, Eirene, Law, etc.) then make a rank for "leaders" that are elected by the guild proper (using a poll on the board perhaps) Those leaders will be expected to perform whatever tasks are deigned to be necessary for the growth of the guilld, which will be agreed upon by the guild.

Everyone else becomes a rank-and-file guild member, capable of becoming a leader if they wish to do so.

If you want to become a leader, then you have to earn the respect of the rest of the guild via your actions.

Then if you bitch about something, you have the power to become a leader and do it yourself. If you fail to do anything about it, then you're a negative influence and you can go along your merry way as far as I'm concerned.

Again, I have absolutely no real reason to be an officer other than I'm a swell guy, so I will understand if I am removed from board access. All I ask is that you guys consider that there is more to success as a guild than who has the most uber items and who has the most realm points. I'd much rather game with friends than with assholes who are better players.

Of course, I may be wrong, it's been known to happen.