STOP Bitching...

[SuperHelix]

Ok folks.

If you are 20 or 60, don't count on everyone to help you at all times.

Ask for it, and if you don't receive it, then people are busy.

I request people to go on raids all the time but because of real life, helping others, or just not wanting to go they don't, and I am cool with that.

It happens.

Some of you started later then others, and Iknow that sucks, but alot of people that did this once or twice are a little burned right now.

I don't see anything improving guild or no guild until PVP and rewards are released.. It will change the opinion, play time, and attitudes throughout.

Trust me.

Hang in there, play with your friends, and be good to each other.

If I am here any more bitch stories, I am removing those people immediately, no if's and's or but's.

D

[Twystyd]

D I beleive Winke and Zaz both have friends to invite. I told Zaz to pm you. Also IhealerI was talking about rolling a priest, he /sent Ting.

[Liseyth]

Should just remove me then. It's too frustrating not having a guild to do level 60 raids with (I leveled solo or in PUG 95% of the time up to 60 thinking that maybe when I got to 60, I'd be able to do some things with guildies. Unfortuantely I was wrong. It's the very same thing). We tell people ahead of time and 5 show up when we need 15. We say we're doing MC, we get 10 when we need 40 total (yes we have other guilds but with all of them, we still can't field 30-35 let alone 40 and we had 16-17 60s online last night alone).

Basically, we do nothing as a guild. It's a bunch of cliques who help each other or focus their helping around the females in the guild.

Just boot me cause I'm afraid that if people don't bring it up, it'll never change and that's not the way a guild should work imo.

[Eirene]

Well I'm burned out on running the same instances over and over. I'm also the only priest that logs on consistently. I can't just drop everything and help you guys do this instance or that instance. My work schedule is even more confusing --starting next week-- I work everyday, which will limit my playtime.

In response to Mexal, you can't expect everyone to drop whatever they are doing and help you do an instance. Be a leader and form your own groups. Do what Super does and spam people till they come and do the instance. Help others do quests, etc. It seems like your post is "me me me" but offers no solutions to the problem. You say "just remove me" but how is that going to resolve anything when you are unwilling to resolve the problem. Rather than being negative...look at the positives for once.

Last night I was helping members doing the Onyxia chain, night before I had dinner plans (before I went to MC and found out I was locked out) and couldn't go to UBRS, and tonight I'll probably do more instances.

[Liseyth]

Sigh, I WANT THE GUILD TO DO THINGS AS A GUILD. Not as 4 individuals here or 2 individuals here and the rest random people we have to message. I want the guild to schedule raids as a guild. I want members to SHOW up to those raids as a guild. I want this to be a guild instead of little cliques of people who help each other and refuse to do things AS a guild.

Just last night I randomly /whoed different guilds. Most of the guilds I did had 10-15 members of their guild in an instance together. We never have that except for when Superhelix bitches at people to come or MC (when most of our guild members should attempt to get on as this isn't something that can be done with 5-10 people). Begging people don't work. It's an annoyance to them and annoyance to me. We shouldn't have to.

Pigvig said he'd run raids for UBRS for the guild. No one shows up. So Pigvig runs PUG for himself and the random 3 people who show up. This is not what a guild does. If Pig says he'll run a raid for people who need it, people should attempt to get on to help out. It's not like we don't have the people online, we just have people who refuse to participate unless it's for some random girl. I just can't stand it. We're not one guild, we're multiple individuals out for ourselves.

We should run raid nights for both 60s and lower levels. You know what...we could, if people would participate. But they won't. We'll post it a week ahead of time and people still won't come (but they'll be online). That, to me is sad.

Our focus should be getting everyone their keys to Onxyia (which means all parts of the quests that people need) as people cannot just randomly do it by themselves. That is of course unless we don't care about participating in the higher level content. It seems we don't care about it. I personally would like to experience it one day, but I think that'll be extremely unlikely. I keep seeing all these posts of guilds beating bosses in MC and killing Onxyia and it saddens me to think that we have absolutely no chance at doing that. Why the hell did I grind my way to 60 if I can't experience any of this crap?

[Joshll]

ahhh-freaking-men

Last night was a whine fest

[killets]

it sucks to not be caught up with the guild.

but trust me on this one... you need to learn to be self-sufficient in every guild, for your own sanity.

when you rely on someone, anyone, you're fucking yourself. Just like in DAoC. When I wanted to RVR, I didn't sit around and bitch if the one bard/skald/minstrel logged in doesn't want to / can't come with us, I already have 10 bards/skalds/minstrels on my friends list and I msg them. Actually, it was a lot more painful in DAoC with bards, because they were also a primary CC, so a random one isn't always enough.

You can't just blame the guild. I've been in tons of guilds, this one included, and while in smaller guilds, you will have more of a sense of guild comradery, in larger guilds like this one, you have to be self-reliant, or to form a clique where people won't be questioning why so-and-so's motive, and questioning reciprocity.

The fact of the matter is, it happens in all guilds. If you aren't chummy with X person in the guild, don't expect them to drop what they're doing, or want to do to help you. It's your own goddamn fault they don't really know you very well. Even if you're lower level, you gotta start a rapport with people, and just because the <insertnamehere> under your name is the same as another person's, doesn't mean you don't have to put effort in getting to know your guildies. And it is reciprocal... once you know them, you feel bad dragging them into something they don't really want to do.

For example, scholo... I've redone my template (for those interested, http://www.geocities.com/richiew90/wow.html), and I've been needing to goto scholo to get all that worthless necropile shit. My friends, on the other hand, are all done with that god forsaken instance. They all have their helms and mantles and various other shit. I msg them all if they want to come, usually they say no. I'm not gonna push the issue and try to ruin their day to run what is a miserable instance.

When I was doing my onyxia key quests, i asked a guild warrior to come help. No one offered (i wouldn't either, that shit is fucking hell). Alright.. so plan b, I start asking warriors in my guild if they'd do me the favor of helping me out. Alright.. a little progress... 1 warrior says he has no time today, or not in the mood, but maybe tomorrow or the day after. Fine with me. Well, turns out he doesn't login tomorrow. Well shit, that sucks for me, but obviously he had something mroe important to do than play WoW, much less help me out with a miserable quest. So... I just got a pug together. Then I announce, ty I'm done with onyxia key quest. Everyone says grats. I say no thanks to you assholes. I make enemies. (ok I didn't say that last line... but if you were to, you do nothing be demonize yourself as selfish)

And how did I get 2 toons to 60? Love thy pug. As frustrating as they can be, I also find great humor in them. The other day, on maybe my 3rd scholo run of the day, I'm telling my group they can't skip rattlegore. After arguing for 10 min or so, they tell me to STFU, they're skipping rattlegore and let the raid leader run the raid. So fine... we fight all the way up to the viewing room door, and the raid leader just goes about ballistic when he finds out the rogue can't pick the door. He says "I'm only 290.. maybe i need 300". LMAO... the raid leader just about freaks out, then gets a 300 lockpicking rogue to join the raid midway, just to pick the lock. obviously, this lock is unpickable, and ... FOOT IN MOUTH. killets wins again. i was pissed, but reflecting on it, it is funny.

[Liseyth]

You learn to be self sufficient in a guild like this. I 95% of my own leveling cause people were either higher level than me, on at the wrong times, didn't want to do the things I needed/wanted to do and so on. So I understand that fully. But that doesn't change that one day a week we can run something as a guild.

I would think in guilds that are of the larger nature, it'd be easier to field enough people to run a different instance once a week for the people who need the quests or what not. We can't even manage that.

Well, It's my fault I feel like an outsider. I guess I can live with that. Just sucks when all the people who feel like outsiders befriend each other and it seems to be people who weren't in the guild in DAOC. Oh well, guess it won't change. I'll just shut up now.

[Gorilla]

ive also been in a few guilds. but the ones ur talkin about with strong connection between the players is not a free open guild.

they usually run on a dictatorship. and u have to drop everything ur doing or get booted out of the guild. nobody helped me level 50-60 i just randomly grouped with pugs and maybe 1-4 gildies for a 30 min quest or something, but nothing that u would call guild oriented crap. plus this guild has never been a PvE its all PvP.

[killets]

honestly, when the guild gets as big as bwc is, not everyone in bwc is gonna be chummy with everyone in bwc.

if people had issues with you, you wouldn't have been invited. you just have to give people the chance to know you better, and make the effort yourself, especially since you're the one who needs more help you just have to make more of an effort to get to know everyone. it's hard when you're behind in levels or gear, but the point is to know people well enough that they WANT to help you, not feel obligated to b/c a tag under the name.

i've had to do this all over again on blackrock, since i'm without BWC there, so it's still fresh in my mind. of course, i can give you some tips on how to do this best, although other officers prolly don't want to see me posting the methods of kissing ass without losing face, b/c then they wont' know if you're just posing

actually, i read something that's semi true on the boards the other day. it was more attuned to guild advancement, but honestly ranks don't mean much imo. but if you replaced promotion with "overall guild trying to appease you". it basically makes sense... your goal is to help others more than they help you. even if you're behind in levels, you can do other things ,whether they're trade related, helping higher levels on things that may be ahead of you, etc... they will return the favor:

Hello friends. As you know my mission is to benefit Blackrock as a whole and bring us high quality content filled posting when possible. This is a well needed Top 10 List and follow up to my last Top 10 List on how to run a successful guild. In this weeks discussion you will get a first hand view on a guild leaders thought process. You will understand what it takes to get those promotions. Being in a guild is not a gift nor a burden. Knowing how to shine as a member will make your promotion life much easier.


10 - Mediation. Though not high on my top 10 list everything helps. Sometimes a conflict between guild members can arise and get out of hand especially if the conflict is discussed over guild chat. Often times a guild officer or the leader is not logged on at this time. Its a simple act of caring and kindness that can go a long way if you simply step in to mediate. Perhaps inviting them both into a group to take the conflict off of guild chat is what is needed. Perhaps giving them both an objective view on the situation so they can better understand how the other feels is appropriate. Whatever your action is; any form of mediation will help to reduce conflict and keep your guild a healthy and happy one.

9 - Helping with quests. The majority of quests you have can be completed on your own or with a buddy. Sometimes you receive a quest with a reward so great that its difficulty cannot be confronted alone. Taking time out of your day to help others with quests is noticed by the guild leader whether you realize it or not. I often get private messages from members letting me know who is helping them and how much they like a certain person.

8 - Defending Reputation. Every guild has a time where its reputation is under attack by either horde or alliance. It is easy to keep silent when this happens and ignore the aggressors. The effort that you put into defending your guild's name will not go unnoticed. This can be accomplished in game or out of game.

7 - Out of game assistance. The top guilds are always organized the best. Some guilds have live chat, websites, forums, etc. Just because they are guild master or guild officer doesn't mean they have the skills or time to run these out of game communications. If your guild doesn't have an out of game communication system I recommend HIGHLY that you create one. This will definitely jump start your promotion career. For example, a member of our guild named Blizz started a php nuke website with forums for our guild OUTNUMBERED. I had initially set up ezboard forums but this upgrade was well needed and very appreciated! Even if forums are already up and running for your guild it's a great idea to keep them active. Start your own post, write a tale, suggest a raid, etc.

6 - Assisting lowbies. This ranks as number six on list. Yes it is similar to my number 9 item on the list of helping with quests but helping lower level members requires much more. This will usually require that you gain no experience or items worth using at all. This is truly a lending of your time without a physical reward. Your hidden reward though is the gratitude of the ones you help and the ones who notice. I take note of who helps who and it really does make a difference.

5 - PvP ability. Could you imagine a new guild member that gets slaughtered daily and cries for pvp assistance every 10 seconds? If someone like that was in my guild they would last a few seconds. If you are a strong pvp player you will become respected inside and outside of the guild. One of a guild master's proudest moments is watching his members slaughter players off the opposing faction or cream someone in a duel. The four most important ways to advance within your guild are still yet to come.....

4 - Invaluable. This isn't rocket science people. Make yourself INVALUABLE to the guild. Some people start with this gift when they roll a priest or druid or whatever class your guild needs but then some have to work at it. Knowledge is power. Scout out cities of the opposing faction and learn the guard movements... provide this information to your guild when they are planning raids. Obtain maximum skill in a profession that your guild needs. Like I was saying before create and design a guild website if nobody else can. Just do something that makes you important and unique. If your guild leader wants to keep you he will often promote you to keep you happy.

3 - Recruitment. I don't care how many flames I get for the topic of recruitment. After you have a guild as large and organized as I do then you can comment on mine. Back to business. Recruitment is KEY to any guild. Some people say I am the master of recruitment on this server and I take it as a compliment. Not all recruitment is done through me though. Spector, a hunter in my guild, has recruited more members for my guild in a few days than an other guild member has besides myself. His reward? Promoted past 4 ranks to full membership after day 2 and he is on the fast-track to veteran/or officer rank. Your guild master will love any skilled quality player that you recruit. Whether you start meeting people you group with, do instances with, get potions or enchantments from, or whatever.... get to know them and recommend your guild to them if you think it's a good match. You will be surprised at how many people are not satisfied with their current guilds for simple reasons such as "our guild doesn't raid" or "they are so mean." It is these same @$%!@%&s that drive people out of guilds that you see flaming this and all of my posts. I don't mind their actions though; more guild members for me. Thanks meanies.

2 - Personal relationship with the Guild Master. Is this a subject that is taboo? I think not. Lets get this out there in the open folks... guild masters are more likely to promote you if they know you well! Members that I group with and raid with are the ones I can see in action and evaluate. If I never saw a member playing there would be little chance for promotion. Also, this is ranked as number 2 on my list because you have to be able to trust someone which requires a good personal relationship. Why would your guild leader ever make you an officer if they had any amount of doubt that you could remove other members or mess around with the message of the day. Once your guild master trusts you you are good to go. Even something as slight as a greeting over guild chat gives me a smile and can brighten your guild master's day also. Just get out there and make yourself known, ok? Also of note, any guild master is lying if they say they hate it when people suck up. Its the truth people....it is not even required that you like your guild master or ever ever suck up to them..... but sucking up doesn't hurt. lol.

1 - Leading raids. These top 3 ways to advance in a guild are so important they are almost a tie. I had to make something number 1 though. I am probably more likely to promote people who lead raids well and often than for any other reason. A current officer in my guild, Hauntingecho, was not always an officer. He joined as an initiate like everyone else. I never ever asked him to lead a raid or create one of his own. All of a sudden I see over guild chat something along the lines of "PVP raid at this location and that time." He rounded up the troops, led them into battle, and smashed the horde. He had done this a few times and I had enough.... he was promoted to officer status. Everyone in your guild wants is raids and fun. This is why our guild OUTNUMBERED holds PvE and/or PvP raids DAILY... the fun never stops. If you take the initiative to organize and lead a raid I guarantee your guild master will be very pleased.

[slythetove]

This thread is overdue in my opinion.

I also agree with Leys on some key points though.

I still think one part of it is not enough people read and more importantly post on the boards here to get a "sense" of each other. I also think there may be a fundamental "mindset" forming in BWC, and I'm not sure it's inline with what some of us have in mind.

I'm waiting to see. Either way I think it's important that this come to light and that we talk about it, but not whine and bitch.

[Sectoid]

Again, you guys talk about not getting help as you level. I had the SAME exact thing happen to me as I was leveling. I took a break for about a week or 2 and I was completely left out of "high level group" of Rhuac, Cham, Super and others. However, I found PUG's and did quests and stuff that I could do alone. I would also help them with their quests even if I got nothing out of it. Pretty soon I started to catch up and those same people who outleveled me saw that I was making an effort to level and they in turn started to help me out.

It's all about your attitude. If you bitch and whine and then are ungrateful when you do get helped, people are less likely to want to help you.

You can't expect people to help you all the time, even if they are in the same guild as you. If you find that you need help with a quest/instance then /tell them privately and try to find a time when they will be able to or be willing to help. Just spamming in chat or on the boards isn't going to get much turn out imo. Do what Super does, message people privately until they are willing to help, or when you can agree on a date to help. Above all else, if you want someone to help you, be willing to help them.

[Liseyth]

One thing.

People don't seem to understand that it's not just about getting help. It's about creating a community that people want to participate in.

[slythetove]

One thing.

People don't seem to understand that it's not just about getting help. It's about creating a community that people want to participate in.

Exactly. This is the point that matters.

[Sectoid]

And like I said sometimes this happens, sometimes people just aren't in the mood for it. If you are looking for that kind of guild, most of the time it will have to be a small guild where everyone knows each other and more importantly get along with each other.