Ok this RR was all fubared up and we all know who had a major hand in it. Here is some views I had on how we can improve and suggestions/plan for the next one.
1. Too short notice. Although I could make this there were alot of people that couldnt make it. Suggest to make the raid when its not primetime for albs/hibs. We had success doing an early morning raid before we can do it again. I suggest early Sat/Sun morning around 6am-8am PST.
2. DO NOT INVITE DRUTT TO RAID.
a. If we absolutely must invite or include this asshead then we should have him assigned to do something other than directly with the relic itself. Have him take ERAS or BENO. This will not only keep him busy but out of our hairs.
b. Create 2 /BG one lead by Drutt tower/keep takes. One lead by our /as only. Create a leader only /CG to commincate with drutt so he feels important.
3. Diversion...Make it seem as our primary target is Hurbury but at the last minute go to RENS. Officers of BWC and GM of other guilds will be the only ones we trust to let know this info. Maybe not even GMs as they will tell others about it. EMPHASIZE to all personnel who can read the DoG boards (i.e. HALL) to not spill the beans to anyone.
4. Fuck the Hibs! We dont need them and we dont need that headache. Standing rule is to kill all enemies on sight in our way and in our area. We will not hunt them down but if they are spotted near us or trying to kill us we will run them over. If they want to help they will stay out of our way on another keep i.e. Hurbury/Berk pick one.
5. Stealth/Gank Group support. Although these guys never help in Relic raids by joining the zerg they can help in their own way and still have fun farming ARPEESS. Have stealth groups camp major boat drop points of the keeps are are taking or they are reported coming in on. Oh BTW we should use the /disembark command more because they do this to us. Have the gank groups camp the docks and take the weak keeps to prevent porting by albs. Again killing anything that isnt a mid.
6. All mids travel there together. Or have a rally point where we meet and move on rens at same time. Key is to not let them know we are rens till the towers drop.
7. Hit Renaris T1/T2/T3 at the same time taking them all down at the same time. Leave the furthest one out alone.
8. At the same time we are hitting towers either we get trebs up and begin trebbing walls. Palintones on all keep tops to defend against their siege manned by our Warlords.
9. Once control of RENS towers is taken/claimed roam tower perimeter/camp main doors/postern doors to prevent any albs from entering. Key is to get all mages killed. Stealth we have at this point should be inside keep killing NPC guards and any defenders on the ramparts.
10. IMPORTANT..all to bind to lords at the towers and to roam near their assigned towers. SO in case they get wiped there should be a bot/rezzer at tower to rez/buff and resend soldiers back in.
11. Siege interior doors with War Ram now there should be little defenders inside but if their are a ton then we just ram the door and have our mages/archers kill any that try to pour oil. After that its just a matter of time before we get to our relics.
12. Relic carrying group should already be formed prolly will be us and have someone who has high hitpoints can run fast or have SoS in group. IM willing to /RA respecc so I can get SoS 3, AM 3 and any other RA that will help our group survive to get home. Once we get the relic we get out of dodge ASAP re-rally another keep and move to our homeland.
13. After action. After we have the relics from RENS we should have at least 2 keeps if hibs dont have a third we go after hurbury and then after the albs relics.
14. In Conclusion this Raid is intended to cripple the ALBION Realm and to fuck the HIbernian realm for what they have done to us. We also need to reclaim FENS/ARV with competent RVR guilds....BWC/MDOM/MYTH come to mind.
I know this is a tough plan but I feel it would work if supported by our leadership and our /as. I know long read but thanks for reading it. If you have any suggestions or comments to make the raid go by faster let me know and we can discuss them. Biggest part of this is setting a date and getting the word out.
NEXT POST WILL BE LOGISTICS.
Relic Raid-Lessons Learned-New Plan
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Seventhorn
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Relic Raid-Lessons Learned-New Plan
Liader Ventura 49 level Cleric Holy Rollers Lamorak
Liader Ventura 50 level Skald BWC RR9 now
Sateo Corleone 50 level Shaman still a bot
Savaneh 50 level Spiritmaster
Akazuken on many servers just pimp on one.
Lets have a sexy party!!!
Liader Ventura 50 level Skald BWC RR9 now
Sateo Corleone 50 level Shaman still a bot
Savaneh 50 level Spiritmaster
Akazuken on many servers just pimp on one.
Lets have a sexy party!!!
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Seventhorn
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LOGISTICS
I know Elevenss can make diminutive rams... anyone else?
We need the following.
RENS T1=3 RAMS/3 TREBS/3 CATAPULTS.
RENS T2=3 RAMS/3 TREBS/3 CATAPULTS.
RENS T3=3 RAMS/3 TREBS/3 CATAPULTS.
RENARIS= 6 RAMS. (3 extra in case we lose the ram for whatever reason.)
TOTAL NEEDED=15 RAMS, 9 TREBS, 9 CATAPULTS.
TOTAL GROUPS NEEDED=3-4 FULL GROUPS. However more is nice. That is 32 people im sure we can muster up that many to do this.
What we need to do is pre-assign group leaders and groups. We can ask who will be coming and get the exact numbers. If they flake we replace with a body.
Here is my plan all it needs is a date and a LEADER to LEAD it.
We need the following.
RENS T1=3 RAMS/3 TREBS/3 CATAPULTS.
RENS T2=3 RAMS/3 TREBS/3 CATAPULTS.
RENS T3=3 RAMS/3 TREBS/3 CATAPULTS.
RENARIS= 6 RAMS. (3 extra in case we lose the ram for whatever reason.)
TOTAL NEEDED=15 RAMS, 9 TREBS, 9 CATAPULTS.
TOTAL GROUPS NEEDED=3-4 FULL GROUPS. However more is nice. That is 32 people im sure we can muster up that many to do this.
What we need to do is pre-assign group leaders and groups. We can ask who will be coming and get the exact numbers. If they flake we replace with a body.
Here is my plan all it needs is a date and a LEADER to LEAD it.
Liader Ventura 49 level Cleric Holy Rollers Lamorak
Liader Ventura 50 level Skald BWC RR9 now
Sateo Corleone 50 level Shaman still a bot
Savaneh 50 level Spiritmaster
Akazuken on many servers just pimp on one.
Lets have a sexy party!!!
Liader Ventura 50 level Skald BWC RR9 now
Sateo Corleone 50 level Shaman still a bot
Savaneh 50 level Spiritmaster
Akazuken on many servers just pimp on one.
Lets have a sexy party!!!
I really agree with the gank group part. If albs have to run to defend a keep, a gank group or two would totaly own them.
50 spiritmaster, 50 shaman, 50 shaman, 50 bard, 50 druid, 50 chanter, 50 necro, 50 minstrel, 50 healer, 50 runemaster, 60 hunter, 60 warrior, 60 druid and 60 paladin
If de bees wake up from dey dream we all die, but she die firsand de
moshorrible. He brushed frantically at his face and knocked away not
fingers but a large spider.
If de bees wake up from dey dream we all die, but she die firsand de
moshorrible. He brushed frantically at his face and knocked away not
fingers but a large spider.
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Joshll
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I'm ornery this morning, so hopefully I'm not too obnoxious.
First, I'd like to say that it's counter-productive to blame everything that ever goes wrong on Drutt. Sometimes we just lose, sometimes we get outzerged. Drutt is not a gifted leader and succeeds by simply throwing a zerg at something, but the fact is that he has lead as many successfull relic raids as all the leaders of BWC combined. His success rate my not be as high, but cut the guy some slack. He lead a successfull relic raid last week as a matter of fact. Now we can call him stupid for taking the hib relic instead of our own, but the fact is he can be an asset, or we can split the realm and create all sorts of drama. I'm tired of the fucking drama.
/end of speech
ok, as to your plan, I'm not sure. And thats because your plan is a siege, and frankly in a siege against albs of equal numbers we will lose more often than we win. Albs have more range, better archers, better mez from range, usually a bigger army, and they can return to the battle faster since they are defending homeland keeps a short run from border keeps. To take the keep plus all the towers plus treb down the walls we are getting into the type of warfare that favors them.
Also, after we capture the first tower, further towers have no strategic significance for a relic taking force unless we think we can beat the albs through brute force. We aren't taking Rens or Hurb to hold them, we just want to get in and out. Slowing ourselves on the main keep by taking additional towers just means the albs can't get trebs/palintones on the roofs of those towers.
imo, our success will lie in speed.
We need to
a) Cut off port (preferably hours in advance of the main raid)
b) Get in and out of the keep before the albs can megazerg
It would be best if we started the raid already holding Rens 3 or Hurb 4 with those towers already at L10 and the albs not attacking them. If we take those towers hours before and defend hard so that the albs get an attitude of "let them rot" and unzerg, then we are golden. Ideally we have no other towers so the albs are not all rallied and ready. They won't see a single tower as a big threat.
Then we go straight to the main keep, and just ram our way in and grab the relic and run. Because we will be attacking Renaris or Hurbury, all alb reinforcement will be running out directly from Sauvage or Snowdonia borderkeep. If we have the luxury of lots of people, we could have a 2-3g force roaming near borderkeeps to cut off reinforcements. 3g stopping single groups from running out would delay the albs nicely.
Other thoughts:
* Identify in advance any Warlods we have to run the ram for seige bonus
* Identify who exactly has ram assignments for each door before we arrive
* Have all hunters that come along bring fools bows and assist on doors. We also need hunters along to suppress any scouts that sneak inside. A few scouts on a roof can kill alot of people. We need as many hunters with main force as we can, they are our longest ranged asset for a short range realm.
* We can't drop a warship for escape in enemy water. So we either have someone ready to drive a ship in near Surs 3 for the pickup, or we forgo ships altogether.(you can carry pocket ships, and just run to the alb coast boarder entrance and drop a boat there)
* If we don't use ships to escape, personally I'd stick a sojourner in the relic carrying group for water breath, and go the entire way home along the ocean floor to Nottmore. Albs can't kill what they can't find.
* Hurbury will be much easier than renaris, though we need to hit both...
* If we get D1 down in keep, I'd like to get at least 2-3 PBAE in the inside of the outer wall postern door & PBAE people right as they port inside.
First, I'd like to say that it's counter-productive to blame everything that ever goes wrong on Drutt. Sometimes we just lose, sometimes we get outzerged. Drutt is not a gifted leader and succeeds by simply throwing a zerg at something, but the fact is that he has lead as many successfull relic raids as all the leaders of BWC combined. His success rate my not be as high, but cut the guy some slack. He lead a successfull relic raid last week as a matter of fact. Now we can call him stupid for taking the hib relic instead of our own, but the fact is he can be an asset, or we can split the realm and create all sorts of drama. I'm tired of the fucking drama.
/end of speech
ok, as to your plan, I'm not sure. And thats because your plan is a siege, and frankly in a siege against albs of equal numbers we will lose more often than we win. Albs have more range, better archers, better mez from range, usually a bigger army, and they can return to the battle faster since they are defending homeland keeps a short run from border keeps. To take the keep plus all the towers plus treb down the walls we are getting into the type of warfare that favors them.
Also, after we capture the first tower, further towers have no strategic significance for a relic taking force unless we think we can beat the albs through brute force. We aren't taking Rens or Hurb to hold them, we just want to get in and out. Slowing ourselves on the main keep by taking additional towers just means the albs can't get trebs/palintones on the roofs of those towers.
imo, our success will lie in speed.
We need to
a) Cut off port (preferably hours in advance of the main raid)
b) Get in and out of the keep before the albs can megazerg
It would be best if we started the raid already holding Rens 3 or Hurb 4 with those towers already at L10 and the albs not attacking them. If we take those towers hours before and defend hard so that the albs get an attitude of "let them rot" and unzerg, then we are golden. Ideally we have no other towers so the albs are not all rallied and ready. They won't see a single tower as a big threat.
Then we go straight to the main keep, and just ram our way in and grab the relic and run. Because we will be attacking Renaris or Hurbury, all alb reinforcement will be running out directly from Sauvage or Snowdonia borderkeep. If we have the luxury of lots of people, we could have a 2-3g force roaming near borderkeeps to cut off reinforcements. 3g stopping single groups from running out would delay the albs nicely.
Other thoughts:
* Identify in advance any Warlods we have to run the ram for seige bonus
* Identify who exactly has ram assignments for each door before we arrive
* Have all hunters that come along bring fools bows and assist on doors. We also need hunters along to suppress any scouts that sneak inside. A few scouts on a roof can kill alot of people. We need as many hunters with main force as we can, they are our longest ranged asset for a short range realm.
* We can't drop a warship for escape in enemy water. So we either have someone ready to drive a ship in near Surs 3 for the pickup, or we forgo ships altogether.(you can carry pocket ships, and just run to the alb coast boarder entrance and drop a boat there)
* If we don't use ships to escape, personally I'd stick a sojourner in the relic carrying group for water breath, and go the entire way home along the ocean floor to Nottmore. Albs can't kill what they can't find.
* Hurbury will be much easier than renaris, though we need to hit both...
* If we get D1 down in keep, I'd like to get at least 2-3 PBAE in the inside of the outer wall postern door & PBAE people right as they port inside.
Last edited by Joshll on Fri Sep 03, 2004 8:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
retired
i totally don't think we are going about this the right way..
if you really wanna take down the relic
you have to take ERAS first. take the castle + all it's towers.. and hold it.
we hold it for as many days as we can..
and then slowing behin to press on.
in duing this.. we cut off portal access AUTOMACTICLLY TO beno/berk.. in which hibs will auto take the time to claim either one or both.
running in gunhoe will just keep the large alb hive active.. we need to beat them down from a farm castle.. until they pretty much lose moral.
IN WHICH.. we take eras like this.
Eras 3 first, send that ram to eras 4..
then get a mega ram on castle AND eras t2 at the same time.. they are very close to each other and easy to do both at the same time.
once eras 2 is down.. you can set up a pallinstone on top to help defend ram, and ALSO give us a tower to "hold down" in if need be.
we can easily get the door down before the main alb force arrives if we have a few near keeps disabled. like surs.. bold.. beno(with just sending MDOM to take them down, as the main zerg handles eras..
we need to set up base... and have a castle which the mid zerg can port into.. so we get our large scale numbers flowing.
last nights bg had 75 heads at 8pm eastern. thats 75 heads taking speed boats... imagine.. 75 heads.. taking intant portal... they get rolled once.. they just instant portal back.. it's a constant attack of 75 heads. thats how we beat albs.
if you really wanna take down the relic
you have to take ERAS first. take the castle + all it's towers.. and hold it.
we hold it for as many days as we can..
and then slowing behin to press on.
in duing this.. we cut off portal access AUTOMACTICLLY TO beno/berk.. in which hibs will auto take the time to claim either one or both.
running in gunhoe will just keep the large alb hive active.. we need to beat them down from a farm castle.. until they pretty much lose moral.
IN WHICH.. we take eras like this.
Eras 3 first, send that ram to eras 4..
then get a mega ram on castle AND eras t2 at the same time.. they are very close to each other and easy to do both at the same time.
once eras 2 is down.. you can set up a pallinstone on top to help defend ram, and ALSO give us a tower to "hold down" in if need be.
we can easily get the door down before the main alb force arrives if we have a few near keeps disabled. like surs.. bold.. beno(with just sending MDOM to take them down, as the main zerg handles eras..
we need to set up base... and have a castle which the mid zerg can port into.. so we get our large scale numbers flowing.
last nights bg had 75 heads at 8pm eastern. thats 75 heads taking speed boats... imagine.. 75 heads.. taking intant portal... they get rolled once.. they just instant portal back.. it's a constant attack of 75 heads. thats how we beat albs.
DAOC-SOLD
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
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SuperHelix
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i took down eras t3 today solo, and SV has it claimed.. so it should be cake to claim tonight.. door1 on CK is at 90%.
and i will be heading out later today to a ladies pad, thus i wont be back til sunday =)
and i will be heading out later today to a ladies pad, thus i wont be back til sunday =)
DAOC-SOLD
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
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Joshll
- Donkey Fucker
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Mids can't hold Eras for multiple days. One day tops. You are ignoring recent history. We can't muster enough mids 24x7. Thats picking the wrong fight that favors albs.
example:
We take a relic and albs come attack arv at 2am with 100 albs vs 30-40 mids. You think eras is going to be any different? How is defending a foreign keep easier than a homeland one a short run from a border keep?
It needs to be a speed raid or a mid zerg of 150+. It cannot be a multi day affair.
example:
We take a relic and albs come attack arv at 2am with 100 albs vs 30-40 mids. You think eras is going to be any different? How is defending a foreign keep easier than a homeland one a short run from a border keep?
It needs to be a speed raid or a mid zerg of 150+. It cannot be a multi day affair.
Last edited by Joshll on Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
retired
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Mourningblade
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Agree with Josh.
Its a rare event when mids can get serious numbers, so that pretty much just leaves the speed raids
I'm not too worried tho, practice makes perfect
Its a rare event when mids can get serious numbers, so that pretty much just leaves the speed raids
I'm not too worried tho, practice makes perfect
_______________________________________
Mourningblade--, DAOC Merlin Server
Oregonian-Priest, Mourningblad-Hunter, Deadduck-Warlock, WoW Bleeding Hollow
"I want to leave this world the same way I entered it....screaming and covered in someone else's blood."
Mourningblade--, DAOC Merlin Server
Oregonian-Priest, Mourningblad-Hunter, Deadduck-Warlock, WoW Bleeding Hollow
"I want to leave this world the same way I entered it....screaming and covered in someone else's blood."
it allows hibs to stick it to albs aswell.. so they get double teamed.. and a constant double team.
defending eras is just like defending our relic.
if we can't do one.. we can't do the other.
and if we just go in and take a center keep which we can't defend once we have it(tempory) albs will still have the advanataget they have now.
they will just go back into mid.. and take the relic back.. and in turn.. take most of our land.. again.
SO to counter that for as long as posible.. is to take eras.. hope that hibs are smart.. and take beno/berk.. and then albs are getting double teamed and crushed.
they will be crushed so much, that we will in time just be able to walk in and take the relics to an undefended castle.
defending eras is just like defending our relic.
if we can't do one.. we can't do the other.
and if we just go in and take a center keep which we can't defend once we have it(tempory) albs will still have the advanataget they have now.
they will just go back into mid.. and take the relic back.. and in turn.. take most of our land.. again.
SO to counter that for as long as posible.. is to take eras.. hope that hibs are smart.. and take beno/berk.. and then albs are getting double teamed and crushed.
they will be crushed so much, that we will in time just be able to walk in and take the relics to an undefended castle.
DAOC-SOLD
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
Lieph (heal)/ Sapporo & Djur(Sham)/ Qute & Brail(SBs)/ Bulor (war)/ Blackroc (ska)/ Antigun & Antigunn (SMs)
WOW-SOLD
Lieph (Warlock) / Vexi (Hunter)
WAR- CLOSED BETA!
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Joshll
- Donkey Fucker
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Bulor wrote:it allows hibs to stick it to albs aswell.. so they get double teamed.. and a constant double team.
defending eras is just like defending our relic.
if we can't do one.. we can't do the other.
and if we just go in and take a center keep which we can't defend once we have it(tempory) albs will still have the advanataget they have now.
they will just go back into mid.. and take the relic back.. and in turn.. take most of our land.. again.
SO to counter that for as long as posible.. is to take eras.. hope that hibs are smart.. and take beno/berk.. and then albs are getting double teamed and crushed.
they will be crushed so much, that we will in time just be able to walk in and take the relics to an undefended castle.
I've been in Alb taking towers or keeps daily for a month. The hibs are a non-factor and will only be a factor if we specifically organize something like Drutt did last Friday. You don't even see the hibs taking alb towers to farm them on a regular basis. All they've got is a few gank groups out daily.
We don't want to TAKE a center keep, we want to break in and run away from Rens or Hurbury. Totally different strategies. We want to get the relic and run. And as soon as we've grabbed the relic, we've already cut off their teleport for our escape as those keeps break the teleport chain.
Look, organize a take for Eras, I guarantee you will not hold it longer than 2 days and I'll be shocked we can hold 24 hours. If that hasn't happened in the last six weeks, I don't see how it suddenly became feasible. I have been in Alb land, my illusions are gone. In a straight up fight of numbers on their homeland soil they win. And they can bring more people than we can around the clock. They can cut off port to Eras very easy as tower 3 & 4 are exposed. If they bring 110 albs to tower 3, we are not going to try to trickle mids across the swamp and lose all defensive advantages. The most we've had any alb keep is about 18 hours, and those have been Berk, Surs, & Eras. We took hurb once, but only held it for an hours
And holding Eras is not equatable to the difficulty of holding a Midgard relic. For one to get a Midgard relic they have to drop 3 keeps. We can get to anywhere in our homeland faster than we can boat from Glen to Eras.
We don't need a foothold in the Alb homeland, that will work against us more than anything because they will be fully mobilized and motivated. A raid where we hit them hard before they have a chance to rally and get good leadership is where we will succeed. We need to get in, and get out quikly imo.
Taking Eras is a fine strategy if you want to farm albs and let them throw the zerg at you, but it is not a good strategy for a relic raid until we are stronger than them. And I'm sorry, but Midgard just isn't as strong as them right now. But prove me wrong. Organize a Eras keep take, if held more than 24 hours I'll eat crow on the public boards and claim to be your troll sex slave.
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