Alliance deal

[SuperHelix]

From Granz after I talked to him and Zinxx about Wyrd/Redux/BWC:

Hi Gundorf,



Today I made up a proposal for a new alliance including everyone that we talked about last night. I have e-mailed this to Finch from Wyrd and he will pass it along to Dawgma. I have not talked to Wyrd about the idea of your alliance being involved with this also. So I don’t know their reaction but I have faith you are correct and they will react positive to the idea. I do have a commitment to Wyrd since they where interested in this prior to speaking with you about it. So I much make sure they are ok with this plan of bringing BWCA into the mix. This is a rough proposal of ideas that I have thought of for a long time. I put it together in a “DOC” format in Microsoft Word. I hope you have MS Word so you can view it properly. Also I believe you can click open on the download and it will load into your browser if you are running IE 6+. Let me know if you have problems viewing it and I can simply make it into a web page for you to view.



This is not a list of demands but a structure of the alliance I was envisioning. There are no demands involved at all. I actually have already run this by the Redux officers prior to BWC or Wyrd speaking with me and wanting to form an alliance together. It is a large document but there is a lot of planning and structure that needs to go into this. Read it and let me know what you think.

Prior to me digging into the Myth alliance at Drutt’s request the Myth alliance was mayhem as I am sure you know this. A lot of these ideas are already tested in a live alliance format. The rule set is a rule set I wrote for the Myth alliance but edited for this new alliance. The rule set is a bit harsher then I have done in the past but I think with good reason. The idea is to make a friendly alliance of people that enjoy to be banded together and have respect for each other as players and human beings. But at the same time eliminate spam in the alliance chat and make it enjoyable for all of us. Check it out and tell me what you think. I really feel an alliance that you and I talked about could be bigger then sliced bread. If this all comes to pass I almost feel sorry for the enemy realms.



Let’s also keep this under our hats for right now until we can get this all pounded out. We don’t need the whole world to see our plans until we are ready to present them. If ya know what I mean.



Pass this along to Celestrial as well so she can see the idea in black and white. Or all you’re GM’s for that matter.



Look it over here is the link for download:



http://www.reduxguild.org/alliance/alliance.doc



-Granz

[Twystyd]

My initial opinion is the idea of creating a new Mid. alliance is a good thought.

This particular idea gives Redux too much power and I was never a big fan of having a vapor guild lead an alliance. It is a very unstable format once one of the larger guilds wants to change even with the fail safes he is perposing.

Most importantly, I believe our loyalty should go out to Asendancy and our other allies first and bring any ideas we may entertain to our alliance board for their opinions. Also I believe the weekly RP earnings (if any are used should be raised).

[Farfar]

The guild applying must be obtaining at least 100k RP’s per week as a guild to enter the alliance

3 of 9 guilds in Redux alliance doesnt get 100k rps / week atm.

Any way, im not a big fan of Redux but the idé is good.

but i still want:

BWC
DE
LV
TF
Wyrd
MDoM
Asce
IDE50

and Ravenous and Redux maby

[Bulor]

my ADD kicked in during the reading of that doc.

it seems to be making the allieance into a very complicated polical formate which seems good on paper, but in will actually cuase things to run less smoothly.

17 guild allieance... 17 guilds to spam the /as.. 17 guilds to not have any form of shutting them up if they go nuts.. 17 guilds which can hae varrus spy bots and what not..

at first the thought of the union of 3 top guilds sounded comforting... but then of course one must deal with the bagage in which those 3 guild with there allieance comes with...

Redux:

Defiance
Disciples of Blood
Eternal Afterlife
Euphoria: who?
Fenris Brood: who?
Legends: who?
Linkdead INC: who?
Monster: omg hate


a union between BWC and wyrd.. would be less of a shell shock then with bwc and redux.. BWC has, 4 active guilds... which are all RvR ready..

wyrd.. 3 guilds.. which wyrd is RvR ready unsure about the other 2... redux has redux, and monster(caster bait)..

get what i'm saying? redux has to trim there /as in order for this to work.. or some of those guilds in there /as should merge.

[Eirene]

Half of the stuff in that document refers to the old Myth alliance format.

I don't like anchor guild for primary alliance holder.

I don't like Alliance Senate crap...Thats Bureaucracy. Don't need that shit in a video game.

Wyrd guilds are like bot guilds. Primary guild into alliance would be wyrd.

I think Granz wants to control the alliance imo. He wants structure and even though I like structure, there are times you have to loosen up. Here at bwc -- we're family like, we joke around, we rvr together, we do pve raids together. The proposal does not take into account of our alliance guilds and how they feel.

I do think we are mature enough to talk about alliance stuff, events, etc. However we need consistency. Can BWC anchor the alliance? Not sure. If SH is around, then I'm sure rest would agree. If I'm around, I don't think it will fly. I'm too bitchy. I'm not that charismatic. Wyrd secludes themselves a lot. Granz and I still have issues. I like Redux really. Nice people.

I don't think half of the guilds in the Redux alliance makes 100K rp per week.

I don't like one person controlling the alliance forums. I personally think we should host the alliance forums imo with the calendar functions.


I have to look at the proposal again...

[Joshll]

I got ADD on page 3. A game should not be that complicated. I too do not want beaurocracy.

And there were lots of carebear rules in the alliance rules where we have to be all nicey nice. Now I personally think thats how we should be anyway, but when you have all these rules like you can't say "WTF", then you are sure to have these anal rule heads that will be referring to page 3 article 5 of the alliance charter to remind SuperHelix he needs to be nicer and is in violation of the rules! Saying people have to be respectfull is one thing, but I think this is way way way overcomplicated.

I could give a shit about the Senate. If some dildo's want to have Beaurocratic meetings, let them. I personally think an alliance should be simple enough that meetings aren't really necessary, or whatever is covered in it I'm fine with someone else worrying about. Not my thing.

Just don't intrude on my fun. I don't want 50 rules in some game I play for fun.

It's not a big deal to me whos name is on the alliance as long as it's not a lame alliance. People can join our alliance, or we can join another. I don't care.

And I think Granz sees himself as a great adminstrator. You know he will take as much power as he can. Not that I really care unless people start telling me what to do/not do.

All that said, it would strengthen Midgard to have one big alliance rather than lots of small ones. We would hear about keep spam faster, it would be easier to rally. I'm completely in favor of one big alliance. And if we join and don't like it, we can always bail out.

Lets see what Wyrd does. Or ask what they want. If it is Myth Alliance part 2, I can guarantee you they won't stay in it. They hated the anal people, and the mega spam in the Myth AS.

[Eirene]

I can guarantee Wyrd won't like this proposal.

I'm re-reading it again. I don't agree with "senate" or "council". Too many rulesets.

Some spam is acceptable. I mean its like we're limiting certain personalities in our alliance. I mean I would love to add guilds to our alliance who we know and trust. I don't know who the fuck is LinkDead Inc.

Have we thought about including The Fellowship, Evolution?

[Hall]

I can see it now

Gundorf: Why the fuck arent you in Odins

/as Gundorf you are in violation of code 45 sanction K sector 3
you will be fined 1 plat

Not to mention when yipee choses to randomly run his mouth.

It sounds really nice and would be beneficial but I just do not see it happening.

Kind of sad that we cant all play together

[SuperHelix]

Keep posting and I will give Granz all my comments.

He has already replied to me.

One site is fine, different then all the guild sites.

100k, we are taking off.

Wyrd, we will hear soon.

I'll be back on Sunday.

Cele, Granz wants to talk to you in game.

[Eirene]

This is what Majesticone sent me in a PM.

My first question after reading this is to ask if BWC is really interested and ready to give up it's role as an alliance leader? Whlie you would be recognized as an "anchor guild" within the newly formed alliance, that would be the only place you would be recognized in that manner. On the Herald and to people outside the Alliance, you would be a member guild. Are you guys interested in giving up your rich heritage as the BWC Alliance?

Ok, that said, I have a couple of issues about the membership issues. Currently, Esprit would not meet the requirements, but I'm assuming since we're already in and listed, that's not a problem for us. I do feel we are a valuable, contributing guild however, and the duscussion on the board lately has been favorable towards smaller, quality guilds. Additional small guilds would most likely not appear. But, in light of the number of guilds he's talking about, smaller guilds may not be possible w/in Mythic's limit of guilds in an alliance.

As far as the rules Granz is proposing, they certainly don't leave anything out. They are very structutred, succinct and thorough. On one hand, I feel that if "this is a game" as he states, they are too strict. On the other hand, it's good to know where you stand as a member of this proposed new alliance. My preference would be to have them softened somewhat and maybe be less extensive. Basically, I think rules are important (I'm a supervisor at work, you need rules), but you need to provide room for people to be creative - if that makes sense.

Overall, this looks like a great business proposal, but is it a good game proposal? There are some big questions to be answered, the biggest one being BWC giving up an alliance. Until you (we) answer that, I don't see this happening. My personal opinion is that I hate to see BWC give up their alliance identity, but that's just me. The other concern I have is that it appears that Granz will have an awful lot of power. He will be on the Anchor guild, he will be the secretary, he will be running the web site, etc. That is an awful lot of power that no one else seems to have at first glance.

I hope this helps, let me know if I can provide any other input, I appreciate being asked. And, what you have sent me will not go any further

I agree with some of her comments.

I'm still working on Veturi.

[Himmlischer]

Granz is looking to make an alliance with us and Wyrd because his alliance sucks and it isn't as powerful as he envisioned it when he left Myth (for the second time). He uses us and our name so he has power, not because he likes us or Wyrd. I have known him since he was in Ravens, he is always plotting how to get more power. I personally would prefer to trust Soldor than him.

[Joshll]

Sounds like a consensus - thanks but no thanks.

Now if they want to join BWC alliance and behave themselves, then I might feel different.

[Eirene]

I don't know if you guys know the background of why Redux left the BWC alliance the first place.

First, Granz made Redux out of spite toward his "feud" with Drutt. The day after Redux was made and had a 30 membership core, I jumped and invited them into the alliance (because you and I know that they are good people, they rvr and defend or what not, and at the time ToA just came out and we did a ton of MLs together).

So everything was cool for about 2 weeks--we're defending, doing MLs, and doing rvr. Everyday, Granz was all up in wanting to know whats going on in BWC, asking how we're doing and how he can make the alliance better. And everyday, I said things are ok. Granz came up to me one day and requests that Fatal Legacy be invited into the alliance because Fatal Legacy had "issues" with Drutt and should be immediately brought into the alliance. I said "I have to look into it." So I ask the officers (Josh knows what I'm talking about) and we're looking at Fatal Legacy stats and didn't seem impressed with the 100+ member guild with the majority of them being around level 40 or so and felt it would just be craziness.

Then I tell Granz "not right now on Fatal Legacy as I felt they needed some time grouping with BWC members and its alliance. Maybe in a week or so when we get to know them as a guild". I swear the very next day, Granz announces his guild is leaving the BWC alliance because he "patched" his "issues" with Drutt and majority of his guild is going back to Myth. I was like "uh ok..." (I was confused at this point---never in any of the servers I've played on I've seen this happen.) Later word gets to me the reasons Granz "decided" to leave the alliance was 1) BWC alliance is "too quiet"; 2) Not enough people in the alliance; 3) Too much "profanity" and any other "excuse".

Personally I felt I gave Granz/Redux a chance of renewel or to break the mold away from Myth/Drutt. I thought it was a slap in the face when they said those things. /shrug

Would I give them another chance? Yeah sure. Maybe they learned their lesson from the first time. However, I wouldn't give Granz that much power. It has to be equal down the lines.

[Zoidmeister]

/agree with Cele and think it's a bad move.

Generally don't agree with putting power in the hands of a potential Drutt sympathizer either.

Also alliance goals (based on doc) may not always agree with our plans and we'll end up being the guild that doesn't always follow orders ...remember we left the big alliance within the first two months of leaving Andred and merging with BWC here ... it just didn't work out.

/Zoid

[Sirion]

um, in all honesty, aside form the alliance forums being on his site, which is kind of stupid imo, i dont see how that proposal gives granz any power what-soever other than making redux one of the three anchor guilds he proposed... i dont agree with the alliance senate shit, and i think its pretty stupid to be so serious about certain things like wtf and stfu in /as, but saying granz is trying to empower himself just seems pretty stupid to me, i mean thats why there are 2 gms from 3 guilds in rank 0 of this anchor guild made specifically for the alliance and a form of ingame "democracy"/shrug

also, the reason redux went away last time was granz and lamm had some real-life issues dealing with her having an injury, and his buisnesses, so assuming otherwise is pointles. granz didnt feel he had enough time to devote to the forming and running of a new guild; thus, he and several officers from redux talked to drutt, got what they felt was a good deal, and went back to myth. those were his words to me, because he knew i wasnt going to be rejoining myth with that feg drutt, so he decided to explain what the deal was to me.

cant comment about what he told you about the bwc alliance because i didnt hear it, but you do have to admit, for the longest time we had like 3 inactive/bot guilds for emain whore groups, and several inactive pveish guilds.