Computer I am looking at: THOUGHTS?

[SuperHelix]

AREA-51 HYBRID SYSTEM - Ok I just priced across all vendors and found this system to be $400-500 cheaper and get better RAM on a 2.8GHZ machine which seems to be the best processor for the money.

Thoughts? What else? upgrade/downgrade.. Thanks.

Black Hybrid Case (200-Watt PS)
Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 2.8GHz 533MHz FSB w/ 512KB Cache
Intel® 845GE-Chipset Pentium 4 Motherboard w/1AGP/1PCI DDR
1GB Corsair XMS PC-2700 DDR SDRAM
80GB Western Digital UltraATA 7200RPM 8MB Cache
PlexCombo 20/10/40-12A CD-RW/DVD-ROM - IDE - Black
1.44 MB Floppy Drive - Black
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB AGP 8x AGP Dual Monitor
Alien Adrenaline: Video Performance Optimizer
5.1 Surround Sound w/Optical Digital Output
Microsoft Internet Keyboard (Space Black)
Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer 3.0 - USB (Space Black)
Lexmark Z55 USB Inkjet w/Cable
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Microsoft Works Suite 2003
Free Alienware® T-Shirt - Black
Bonus 12-Month Subscription to Computer Games Magazine!
Alien Autopsy: Automated Technical Support Request System
Aliencare Toll-Free 1-Year 24/7 ONSITE Warranty

[Hall]

Im more into Home Brew,
that set up looks good for you thou
cept
200W powersupply NO NO you need 400w
instead of Radeon Geforce FX ultra Same price
10x better
crucial memory if they have it

[SuperHelix]

Ok Hall, 400 W it is, I am told the ATI Pro is 100x better then the NVidia, which both have the same memory, whats the difference?

[Supreem]

Personally I love my ATI Radeon Pro....I have had no problems with it, except on older games (2+ years old) I would say stick with it. Personally I don't like XP very much if it was me I would go witn Win2k Pro.

[Pinkerton]

Sounds good. Get me one too. And some skittles.

400W like hallgayface said.

The Radeon 9800 beats all of Nvidia's FX generation in most categories. Some situations (game/maps/etc) the GFFX ultra beats the Radeon by a lot. They're very comparable, but I think I would go Radeon.

You might want a cheap CDROM if you want to copy cds directly.

Are you gonna use dual head? You should consult with your mom on that. She was the expert.

[barbos]

most p4's needed at least 230watt or 250 watt, just for the mainboard and processor. I would definately recommend 300+...

Might look at a 9800 pro if they have it... dunno how much more it is, but it would last longer.

[killets]

Personally speaking, I'd just wait for a Dell deal, unless you want the computer like by next week.

The Dell deal I found for Pink was pretty awesome. I forget the exact details but I think it was $800 for a 2.4ghz system with a 17" LCD monitor.

Most companies, including Dell, overcharge you on video cards, and RAM. So if you can get some cheap throw-away model, and buy your own video card, that'd be ideal.

I priced out your system at Alienware, and it seems to be on the expensive side:

AREA-51 HYBRID SYSTEM $ 2,524.00 $ 2,524.00
Black Hybrid Case (200-Watt PS)
Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 2.8GHz 533MHz FSB w/ 512KB Cache
Intel® 845GE-Chipset Pentium 4 Motherboard w/1AGP/1PCI DDR
1GB Corsair XMS PC-2700 DDR SDRAM
80GB Western Digital UltraATA 7200RPM 8MB Cache
PlexCombo 20/10/40-12A CD-RW/DVD-ROM - IDE - Black
1.44 MB Floppy Drive - Black
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB AGP 8x AGP Dual Monitor
Alien Adrenaline: Video Performance Optimizer
5.1 Surround Sound w/Optical Digital Output
Microsoft Internet Keyboard (Space Black)
Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer 3.0 - USB (Space Black)
Lexmark Z55 USB Inkjet w/Cable
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Microsoft Works Suite 2003
Free Alienware® T-Shirt - Black
Bonus 12-Month Subscription to Computer Games Magazine!
Alien Autopsy: Automated Technical Support Request System
Aliencare Toll-Free 1-Year 24/7 ONSITE Warranty

I'm sure other people might suggest you to build your own, but I'm too lazy these days... but here's an example of what I'd do:

$1,744
Dell Dimension 4550 Series: Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.80GHz w/533MHz front side bus/ 512K L2 Cache DN4528H [221-1099]
Memory: 1GB DDR SDRAM at 333MHz 1GB3 [311-2077]
Keyboard: Dell® Quietkey® Keyboard QK [310-1582]
Monitors: No Monitor N [320-3000]
Video Cards: New 128mb DDR ATI Radeon™ 9700 Pro Graphics Card with TV-Out and DVI 128ATI [320-0530]
Hard Drive: New 120GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive (7200 RPM) 120G [340-8150]
Floppy Drive and Additional Storage Devices: 3.5 in Floppy Drive 3 [340-1927]
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition WHXP [420-1921][313-7222][412-0306]
Mouse: Dell® 2-button scroll mouse SM [310-1871]
Network Interface: Integrated Intel® PRO 10/100 Ethernet IN [430-0412]
Modem: 56K PCI Telephony Modem 56KWS [313-1583]
CD or DVD Drive: 16 Max DVD-ROM Drive 16DV995 [313-2559][430-0427]
Sound Card: SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 Digital Sound Card SB1024 [313-1319]
Speakers: FREE UPGRADE! Altec Lansing ADA745 4.1 Surround Sound Speakers w/ Subwoofer ADA745P [462-0211]
Software Bundles: Microsoft® Works Suite 2003 with Money 2003 DWORKS [412-0337]
Digital Music: Dell Jukebox powered by MUSICMATCH MMBASE [412-0298]
Digital Photography: Dell Picture Studio, Image Expert Standard DPS [412-0271][412-0273]
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options: 1Yr Ltd Warr plus 1Yr At-Home Service + 90Days Dell SecurityCenter (McAfee) SQ1O9M [950-4430][950-9797][412-0359][462-0127][950-3337]
Internet Access Service: 6 Months of America Online Membership Included AOLDHS [412-0365][412-0371]
CD or DVD Burner for 2nd bay: Free Upgrade! 40x/10x/40x Max CD-RW Drive 40CDR2P [461-7808]
Special Offer: $50 Special Offer OFF50 [460-8164]

Instead, with minimal effort, you can do this:

$1,394

Dell Dimension 4550 Series: Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.80GHz w/533MHz front side bus/ 512K L2 Cache DN4528H [221-1099]
Memory: 128MB DDR SDRAM at 333MHz 128M3 [311-2074]
Keyboard: Dell® Quietkey® Keyboard QK [310-1582]
Monitors: No Monitor N [320-3000]
Video Cards: New 128mb DDR ATI Radeon™ 9700 Pro Graphics Card with TV-Out and DVI 128ATI [320-0530]
Hard Drive: New 120GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive (7200 RPM) 120G [340-8150]
Floppy Drive and Additional Storage Devices: 3.5 in Floppy Drive 3 [340-1927]
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition WHXP [420-1921][313-7222][412-0306]
Mouse: Dell® 2-button scroll mouse SM [310-1871]
Network Interface: Integrated Intel® PRO 10/100 Ethernet IN [430-0412]
Modem: 56K PCI Telephony Modem 56KWS [313-1583]
CD or DVD Drive: 16 Max DVD-ROM Drive 16DV995 [313-2559][430-0427]
Sound Card: SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 Digital Sound Card SB1024 [313-1319]
Speakers: FREE UPGRADE! Altec Lansing ADA745 4.1 Surround Sound Speakers w/ Subwoofer ADA745P [462-0211]
Software Bundles: Microsoft® Works Suite 2003 with Money 2003 DWORKS [412-0337]
Digital Music: Dell Jukebox powered by MUSICMATCH MMBASE [412-0298]
Digital Photography: Dell Picture Studio, Image Expert Standard DPS [412-0271][412-0273]
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options: 1Yr Ltd Warr plus 1Yr At-Home Service + 90Days Dell SecurityCenter (McAfee) SQ1O9M [950-4430][950-9797][412-0359][462-0127][950-3337]
Internet Access Service: 6 Months of America Online Membership Included AOLDHS [412-0365][412-0371]
CD or DVD Burner for 2nd bay: Free Upgrade! 40x/10x/40x Max CD-RW Drive 40CDR2P [461-7808]
Special Offer: $50 Special Offer OFF50 [460-8164]

And pickup 2 sticks of RAM here:

http://www.crucial.com/store/listModule ... &submit=Go

For a total of:

$1,552

Dell Home is offering free shipping, and there's no tax in most states. But then again, its a Dell. But that's a lot of money for a name-brand preference.

I noticed that your original Alienware machine had a Lexmark Z55. I think that may be a discontinued model, but here's a Z65 for pretty cheap:

http://www.thenerds.net/cnet.asp?pn=627690

[killets]

Regarding Video Cards:

GeforceFX has totally been whooped by the Radeon 9800 Pro in most benchmarks. The GeforceFX is arguably the same speed as the Radeon 9700 Pro in most benchmarks.

Nvidia totally fux0r'd up this generation of video cards, but rumour has it when the GeforceFX becomes more widespread, they're going to sell them at a loss to maintain their footprint.

The GeforceFX is also completely gimp because it generates so much heat that it eats up 2 card slots. 1 Slot for the card, 1 slot for the hairdryer they attached to cool it.

You think I'm kidding, but I'm not:



You can guess which is the Radeon 9700 Pro, and which is the GeForceFX.

Here are some benchmarks on Jedi Knight 2 and Quake 3:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1779&p=16

If you want to get the computer soon, don't wait for the Radeon 9800 Pro. But if you're wondering, here are some benchmarks:

Unreal 2003:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1794&p=7

Jedi Knight 2 / Q3A:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1794&p=9

If you think the 9700 Pro has sufficient performance for you, I'd advise holding off on the purchase of it, as the 9800 Pro will start becoming more widely available very soon. At that point, the 9700 Pro will be significantly discounted. I would expect the current prices of $299 for a Radeon 9700 Pro to fall to $250, or even $199.

[SuperHelix]

Thanks Killets, but what about the RAM, 1gb Corsair vs DDR Ram, not worth the price difference huh?

I don't need a monitor either.

2.8 ghz good to go as well?

How long until the Radeon 9800 Pro is out?

Yes I can wait another 15-30 days.. but my 1ghz 384mb RAM machine is getting old.

[barbos]

dell computers lack performance... I can speak from experience..

I replaced my dell 4300 1.6ghz with a home built 1.6ghz and got a noticeable increase in performance...

alienware thrives on selling performance machines especially for gamers... at a price though...

[Kliezen]

hey if you wanna get something cool

http://www.chyangfun.com/Product/CF-S868.htm?pro_id=76

I want something like this just because my computer is goddamn bulky and I move it aroudn a lot. If you have the same problems this might be your solution.

[Zoidmeister]

Gund only issue is the motherboard your choosing is only 4X AGP.

Wonder why A51 isn't looking at using Asus 8x agp's since your card supports 8x:
http://usa.asus.com/products/mb/socket4 ... erview.htm

[killets]

10x better
crucial memory if they have it

Well D, while Hall is an idiot, he has the right intentions. That link I posted above on where to buy ram is from crucial.com. So they sell crucial ram.

Gund only issue is the motherboard your choosing is only 4X AGP.

Wonder why A51 isn't looking at using Asus 8x agp's since your card supports 8x:
http://usa.asus.com/products/mb/socket4 ... erview.htm

Unfortunately, there have been little to no tests that show 8X AGP makes any noticeable real world performance difference over 4X AGP. The bottleneck is elsewhere.

dell computers lack performance... I can speak from experience..

I replaced my dell 4300 1.6ghz with a home built 1.6ghz and got a noticeable increase in performance...

alienware thrives on selling performance machines especially for gamers... at a price though...

While it may be true in your case, I can't completely agree with you.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,678146,00.asp
Here's a test that PCMag did against other "performance-based" companies. The dell and the polywell came out on top. They reviewed a dimension 8250 which I don't like recommending, because it uses RDRAM which is overpriced IMO.

Anyways, when you're comparing $2500 vs $1500 for similar performance, you'd have to be loaded up the ass (in which case you wouldn't be shopping around), or insane to think this is a hard choice.

Thanks Killets, but what about the RAM, 1gb Corsair vs DDR Ram, not worth the price difference huh?

1gb Corsair vs 1 gb anything, shouldn't be a big difference. If you're custom making your computer, and you want to aggressively time your memory or overclock, of course better memory will help you push the barrier. Save from a purchasing off the corner of 4th and Alvarado, you should be good to go with any "decent" ram.

2.8 ghz good to go as well?

2.8ghz is fine. If I were to buy a computer, I'd probably go even cheaper and get a 2.4ghz, since its a better value. If you really want performance though, the 3.06ghz is pretty attractive. The 3.06ghz has hyperthreading, which is a feature they stole from their Xeon line. All the things I've seen have said that hyperthreading does improve multi-tasking performance by a non-negligible amount (provided you're running win xp). the price jump from 2.8 to 3.06 is kinda big though. So its up to you and your wallet here

How long until the Radeon 9800 Pro is out?

Yes I can wait another 15-30 days.. but my 1ghz 384mb RAM machine is getting old

Well, you can pre-order it here already:
http://www.compusa.com/promos/ati9800/default.asp?cm_ven=Performics&cm_cat=Partner_k2315&cm_pla=BYOL&cm_ite=j710323&ref=performics

From what I can see, most stores have an ETA of April sometime. You can always buy the computer now with a ghetto video card. Move your current video card over to your new computer, and play on that until the new ATI comes out if you want.

Camelot isn't the most 3D intensive app either Its runs fine on a GF2 for example
[/quote]

[barbos]

Although I will not get into an arguement over computers, I will state this.

You can find a benchmark to prove damn near everything, if you look hard enough.

[killets]

Yah, but if you compare 1.6ghz P4's, given similar equipment, they're not gonna perform much different, unless you fux0rd up the install.



As someone who made this a hobby for the last 9 years, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that performance differences are pretty much negligible in real world use when it comes to equal generation machines.

Barring some major technological deficiency, (like, say, unintentionally throwing up a significant bottleneck somewhere), performance disparities are really only for the anal.

More important in my eyes are the intangibles and price point. The difference in speed between a Dell 2.4ghz, Gateway 2.4ghz and an Alienware 2.4ghz, given similar equipment (Radeon's, 333mhz DDR-SDRAM, 845e chipsets, 7200 rpm hd's), you'd have to be extremely pretentious to judge the computers solely on which is "faster".

Which is why things like noise level, price points, warranties are more important.

I spent hours custom modding my current computer trying to make it the quietest and fastest computer possible. In the end, my limited tools + limited budget ultimately couldn't come up with a better solution than some of those companies are able to do with their million dollar r&d budgets. I had extra vents cut in, silencers from pc power and cooling, speed controlled glaciator's from millenium, low noise nidec squirrel fans, barracuda iv's with fdb's and dynamat extreme on every square inch of the case. Its quiet... but not much more quiet than a dell with similar performance. and it cost me probably $600 in cooling / sound dampening equipment (dynamat is freaking expensive).

Whereas, I order Dell's for a company I run IT for, and if any part breaks down, I can call in, and they come next business day with a truck full of spare parts. The technician looks at it, I tell them whats wrong, they load off a replacement part off the truck. I think that service is standard with Dell (the thing I priced out for dwayne had 1yr at-home service). If I were to deal with Alienware or home-built, I'd have to drive out and return the parts manually, or mail it in and wait a few weeks for a replacement part.

Anyways, that's my insight into computers, buying them, and performance. Some people make it a hobby performance optimizing computers... it costs more. I went through that stage myself. But don't get that confused with buying a computer without any intention to tweak it

Even with the fact that the new 2.4ghz revision C chips are easily overclockable to 3ghz with a little effort, the cost of putting together a system like that is expensive compared to what kinda amazing crap you can pull off at Dell with some coupons, patience and a little effort.

An example deal you can get right now (expires 3/12):

Dell PowerEdge 1600SC
2.4ghz/533 Xeon
Dual Processor Capable
36gb 10,000 RPM Ultra360 scsi hd
ServerWorks GC-SL chipset
LSI Logic 53C1020 LVD U320 SCSI controller
450watt power supply
10/100/1000 Ethernet
1Yr Parts + Onsite Labor (Next Business Day) + 1Yr Technical Support

for $526. You are lying if you can put together a similar serverworks based computer for cheaper