Undead is Where It's At

[Twystyd]

In regard to PvP is there any reason for Horde to roll anything besides Undead (exept Shamans who can't be)? I would love to hear from WoW beta testers and some quick info for the noobs Undead are immune to most CC aspects of the game (poly, shout, and fear) but are suseptible to (turn and shackle undead). Undead really only fear alliance Priests as few play Palys for hard core PvP that I have seen.

Lets say there was an Alliance group made up of -

1 paladin human
1 priest NE
1 mage Dwarf
1 Warrior Gnome
1 Gnome warlock.
VS.
1 warlock orc
1 warrior Tauren
1 troll shaman
1 undead mage
1 undead priest

from the Horde. (Same classes except Paladin v. Shaman)

All five of the Alliance team can CC/root someone (turn UD, Shackle UD, poly, shout, and fear). While the horde can only CC 4 of their members, (fear, shout, poly, and scream) soo in most times in a equal level skill game between 5 horde and Alliance, Alliance will win 80% of the time.

In short, having 2 or more non undead opens you up to too much CC, so you have to go all undead except your shamans, or no undead. Any thoughts?

My ideal group would look something like -

1 warlock undead
1 mage undead
1 warrior undead
1 priest undead (shadow)
1 priest undead (holy)

Preist specs -

Shadow Build

Shadow
5x blackout
5x shadow weaving
5x darkness
5x shadow focus
5x improved mind blast
2x improved shadow word pain
1x silence
1x vampiric embrace
1x shadowform

Dicipline
5x unbreakable will
5x mental agility
3x improved holy word sheild
2x improved holy word fortitude

Holy Build (assuming they fix spirit)

I would take spirit and healing adds here but really have not tested holy priests enought o spec a toon. This character would no doubt spec as a primary healer.

[Sirion]

supposedly a good pally can kill multiple undead characters solo. with SU TU and holy spells a group with a good priest and a good pally can probably kill a group of 4 undead.

[Sirion]

"Lets say there was an Alliance made up of 1 paladin human, 1 priest NE. 1 mage Dwarf, 1 Warrior Gnome, and 1 Gnome warlock. Then there is a Horde team made up of 1 warlock orc, 1 warrior Tauren, 1 troll shaman, 1 undead mage, and 1 undead priest. All five of the Alliance team can CC/root someone (turn UD, Shackle UD, poly, shout, and fear).
While thr horde can only CC 4 of their members, (fear, shout, poly, and scream) soo in most times in a equal level skill game between 5 horde and Alliance, Alliance will win 80% of the time."

the shaman can also snare them all. undead are also stunnable via melee styles like charge, so killing say.. an undead mage, wouldnt prove any more difficult for a warrior than killing any mage.... now, when you bring rogues into the picture instead of a faggish warlock, you can sap any of the alliance players, but they can only sap three of your players.

[Twystyd]

The trouble is it's even easier to take out non-undead then undead. That pretty much sums up my point. I'm looking into grouping concepts for a PvP server and am leaning twards all undead at this point.

[Flipout]

sounds like a nerfing bell is chiming in the near future.

Just wouldnt make sence to keep the undead the way they are.... how fun would it be to see nothing but Undead (assuming everyone going horde isnt n00b enough to even choose anything other than an Undead) roaming the game?

I would be suprised if they didnt get nerfed before release.... all though it would be nice if they didnt

[Kirt]

they won't

[Flipout]

i need proof


PROOF

[Kirt]

and i'll rolling undead regardless

[Flipout]

yep. Undead Priest for me

[Hall]

Dont stress to much into it yet law rem not every class has there racial traits in yet. I do see undead as a liablity atm thou.

[Nese]

I think you really need to throw a rouge into the mix. They can take out one target with sap, kick mages/priests so that they can't cast, melee stun, and have a huge crit rate. They can be a pretty good utility class.

Also, what about druids as secondary healers?

From my experience so far in the stress test, CC does not play any great role in PvP, and thats by design. Poly is interesting, but only one person per mage can be sheep'd at a time and they regen life real fast. Fear works well if used in the right situation, but all that does is take an enemy out of the battle area. There is no real AE CC to speak of, so in your situation Law at the beginning of the fight, everyone in both groups would have to start each fight trying to CC the other side One on One. Its more effective to poly/fear the priest and go to town on the rest of the group. Combat is so fast that if you all assist, nothing lasts more than 4 or 5 hits.

[Sirion]

"1 warlock undead
1 mage undead
1 warrior undead
1 priest undead (shadow)
1 priest undead (holy)"

i dont know, just because you are immune to mage cc and rogue sap, doesnt mean that group is an insta win. all those characters are still vuln to melee stuns, and every one of them is vuln to TU and SU. Your entire group can be tracked by pallys, thats like getting radar'd every time 100% of the time. you also fail to realize that your entire group aside from the warlock has talents, a pally can kill any one of those classes 1v1 without talents, if their talents are implimented to make them even stronger vs undead, then your whole group makeup is a liabilty, imo. that being said, i think a well played undead priest can probably kill a pally np, talents or no, and if nothing else just mind control him and waste his mana or run him off into the distance, but thats a well played priest that sees the pally before the pally sees him (with track undead thats just going to be luck).

[Twystyd]

I am just discussing full Undead grps v. Non Undead groups. I am not trying to tear down other peoples opinions. I love to hear them -

Sirion you are making too many assumtions. I do not fail to realize anything. That is like me saying you fail to realize there is no such thing as an insta win group or you fail to realize that 75% of MMO gameplay is setting up groups that have less weakness then the groups you play against. I fully understand you still have to play which is why I stressed groups with equal skill.

Nania no. I would perhaps remove a shadow priest for a second mage

Hall, I know man. There will be many changes Blizzard will implement in WoW and this discussion is assuming Undead keep their racial advantages. We wont even go into their resistance to shadow magic making them ersistant to all classes but Palidans and Holy spec priests.

[Kirt]

think there will be alot of changes to cc etc. before it goes live

[Sirion]

"I am just discussing full Undead grps v. Non Undead groups. I am not trying to tear down other peoples opinions. I love to hear them "

im not sure if this was directed at me or not, but id just like to say, that im not trying to tear down anyone's opinion on a solid group. there are going to be various builds that will all be usable, depending on the players no one build will be any better than other build (good players can always make groups work).

that being said, im not failing to understand the potential for undead groups being good, but the bottom line is, that group has no tracking abilities, can all be tracked by a class that (as of the last stats i read) makes up nearly 10% of the pvp server population, and has not one, but 4 cloth wearing classes. being immune to "most" cc (although you really arent any more or less immune to cc than anyone else with the exception of sap) isnt going to get you anywhere when your characters die in 1-2 rounds of assist train combat due to poor AF and low hps... if one priest is shackled and the other priest is turned, your mage and your warlock are both dead before the priests can do ANYTHING to stop them from dropping. at least with a rogue you can sprint away or vanish cheapshot or blind or use evade etc.

also, when counting undead being immune to fear, realize virtually the only class that will be using fear on a pvp server will be the priest with PS, because warlocks are very iffy for pvp with their DoTs ticking over such a long period of time (read matter cabby whose dots dont reach completion for one minute+).

and as for being resistant to shadow magic, thats a moot point because you are vulnerable to holy magic, and only two classes have shadow spells at all (priest and warlock), warlocks will be few and far between, but priests and pallys you will most likely be fighting on a regular basis. mages use fire/arcane/frost, druids use nature, and afaik bleed styles and poisons are nature as well.