Sunder MC raid

[Kharama]

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!

and furthermore yes folks told me how to fix it however it wasnt workin on my system so yes i was gettin a bit aggervated. maybe it works on yours and you think its the best things next to sliced bread. me personaly i dont really care for it due to the fact i couldnt get it workin .
however if your gonna sit there and be a bitch about sayin i whine and shit
2 words
FUCK YOU!!!


jesus you like it he likes i aint fond of it who cares honestly ?

[slythetove]

Pretty soon CT Raid mod will be mandatory for the guild. If you don't have it, you can't raid with guild in pvp/pve.

See how quickly this goes to the next level? Now you can't PvP with your own guild unless you install a mod?

Next will we be told how to spec our characters or be booted? Will we be told what items to use? Will we be told what class we have to play, and what times we must log on?

I like many in BWC, but the day I get told what I have to do in a video game, and when I have to do it, will be the day I have to go. Nothing personal, it's just not my idea of a good time.

I understand that some folks like this, and want to be required to do / install this or that, but it's not for me.

This isn't about CTRaid mod. It never was.

[Nul]

I can see why people are getting upset about using CT_RaidAssist .

Blizzard designed Molten Core to be an Alliance friendly instance mainly due to the fact that Paladins can decurse/remove magic (whatever it is they do) that reallly takes the burden off priests and the raid as a whole. If some of the bosses diseased or poisioned it'd be a much different situation because shamans would be put in charge or removing those status effects.

Having the ability to track the status effects of everyone in the raid (or even a select few groups as I usually do in MC) greatly increases the hordes' ability to successfully complete MC.

MC is a teamwork instance. If you're not all on the same page, working with the same strategies, and really want to win....you're not going to, and all you'll be left with is pissed off people and large repair bills.

CT_RaidAssist is just a strategic advantage for pve raid encounters. I can't see it being necessary for non-raid pve or pvp by any means.

Take those thoughts for what they're worth.

[Jedus]

Pretty soon CT Raid mod will be mandatory for the guild. If you don't have it, you can't raid with guild in pvp/pve.

I might as well be kicked. Being forced to have a CT Raid mod to pvp?

[Liseyth]

It increases the effectiveness of the group as well as limits deaths and increases teamwork.

I'm all for it.

[Kharama]

Pretty soon CT Raid mod will be mandatory for the guild. If you don't have it, you can't raid with guild in pvp/pve.

See how quickly this goes to the next level? Now you can't PvP with your own guild unless you install a mod?

Next will we be told how to spec our characters or be booted? Will we be told what items to use? Will we be told what class we have to play, and what times we must log on?

I like many in BWC, but the day I get told what I have to do in a video game, and when I have to do it, will be the day I have to go. Nothing personal, it's just not my idea of a good time.

I understand that some folks like this, and want to be required to do / install this or that, but it's not for me.

This isn't about CTRaid mod. It never was.

Preach it brotha!!

i sware if thats what it has come down to is folks tellin how to walk talk drink and shit ... not for me

[Sectoid]

Woot more druid loot for me.

[Xarkon]

<twirls finger in the air>

[killets]

Regarding PVP + RaidAssist:

i never raid pvp at all, and actually frown upon it, but it is useful in raid pvp, as I have fought against many who do use it.

raid assist opens up multiple windows for multiple assists, and you can see the targets name/mana/health. then as an assister, you can just click on the assist you want to assist with, and take it down.

this basically makes our 5man very very ineffective against 8+ people. The mentality of daoc where 1 good group could pone 4-5 groups is pretty much gone. We've killed a few 5v10s and 5v15s, but we essentially know what zergs are pvp'ing with raid bar and which are not, because the ones using raid bar are much more difficult to kill. when we take down the healer in 1 group, a healer from another group can cover the group so well with raidbar.. it's like they're in one big 10 person group.

with diminishing returns stacked with only having 2 ae forms of CC in the game on timers (priest, warrior have ae fear, and mage has frost nova), after 30 sec or so in battle, no amount of skill is going to stop the rogue/hunter/paladin/mage/warrior assist train on your group. coordinating all 5 of them to that degree which I've been a victim to is pretty much done for sure using raid assist.


Regarding The Dismay At The Possible Requirement To Install It:

Well, there's real no way around this topic besides hitting it head on. This tool is the ultimate UI enhancement to coordinating anything you do with more than 1 group. If you never plan to raid, there isn't an issue here. Amongst those that do raid, you have 1 side saying dude, everyone needs it, it helps so much and it puts us all in the same page. And the other side saying dude, I'm not gonna install it just because you say its mandatory. I don't want to install it and you have to deal with it.

On large raids that matter, I can very easily see people who don't have raidassist installed being low to zero priority group members. On the other hand, there are some features that allow you to get away without RaidAssist. RaidAssist has features where 1 person can report their own groups' health to the raid, even if they don't have it installed. So even though they're too stubborn/hard-nosed to install it, the rest of the raid will still be able to monitor their sorry asses. But then they can't take any benefit from it either. I.E. they have to make a new assist macro for any possible scenario (as opposed to the raid leader auto-changing the MAs on the fly for the entire raid). They can't monitor other groups. Etc. So it's not just for primary healers, it for anyone who does damage as well with the MA coordination. But whatever.

I'm sure the opinion that you won't be allowed on raids pisses a lot of people off, but there are really two reasons for this.

1) if you don't take a hard stance, then no one will fucking do it. It's especially true for non-hardcore guilds like BWC. everyone who has lead BWC at one point or another knows this.

2) you need this tool to win on pve raids. pvp raids it remains to be seen, but first hand tells me raids that use this in pvp are much superior to raids that don't. we've rolled 15 man zergs thta didn't use RA. we've lost to 8 man zergs that did use it. (although never lost a 5man). I can't think of any guilds that don't use RaidAssist. People say that Nurfed doesn't use it, which I can't verify for myself, but I know every successful guild in the game that I know of uses it. Conquest uses it. Fires of Heaven uses it. I'd hardly consider my BR guild one of the top in the game (although we were tops on the server at one point, but now probably only top 3). Even pickup raids that organize in Orgrimmar to beat onyxia use it (yes, there was 1 pickup raid that beat onyxia on BR).

So on the one side, you have people saying this is necessary for the success of guild raids. on the other side you have people saying that no one has the right to dictate what mods you install. well, now you have to decide what's more important... succeeding (i.e. winning) as a guild in raids, or appeasing individual members. Now I always found that BWC was a clan about winning. BWC brags lots on boards, and generally gets shit done that no one else gets done. I also know that when BWC doesn't win, the guild turns to shit. Friendships start souring, members start looking elsewhere to group, and you have essentially what is happening now. People having more fun grouping with other guilds because they're more successful.

To me, this begs the question, why is it so painful to have BWC members all install CT_RaidAssist if it'll help the guild to more success in beating/winning encounters and quite possibly better guild harmony because you will be more successful? I know this guild is about friendship, but don't forget it's also about winning. If there are members who refuse to use the same game-legal, GM-condoned tools that basically every other guild is using to succeed, then you have a conflict of interest, and drama, like on this board. I know of no better way to make the majority of the guild happy than just consistently doing and beating things as a group. Maybe individuals matter more than the group. Oh well.

And don't take it too personally, I'm a long time friend with a lot of officers here, and was a part of BWC for a while. But the fact is, I don't play BH often at all, so I'm not trying to judge anyone. As someone with a lot of interest in seeing BWC succeed, I don't see any way around this issue.


p.s. this is only step one in beating hard instances. step two is practice :/ but it will be ages get to step two skipping step one. and i can guarentee there will be a lot of BWC who aren't willing to wait 6-12 months to be an encounter that pickup groups were beating 1 month ago.

[barbos]

Some people like a challenge. I think requiring it is sad... Might as well require stuff like radar, because it is sooo useful in PVP.

[Liseyth]

There is no challenge in dying. That's all we'd be doing if we attempted MC without RA.

[barbos]

There's a challenge in preventing it.

[slythetove]

well, now you have to decide what's more important... succeeding (i.e. winning) as a guild in raids, or appeasing individual members. Now I always found that BWC was a clan about winning. BWC brags lots on boards, and generally gets shit done that no one else gets done. I also know that when BWC doesn't win, the guild turns to shit. Friendships start souring, members start looking elsewhere to group, and you have essentially what is happening now. People having more fun grouping with other guilds because they're more successful.

If "winning" is more important than the members having fun priorities are out of whack. Both can be done.
If "friendships" only exist because you are "winning" then they aren't friendships. They are relationships of convenience and greed.

Killets, in this thread you sound like a guy with his priorities on pixels. If that's your thing that's fine, but it ain't mine. It never has been, and it never will be.

There will be no hard feelings from my end, but I am not interested in being a member of Vae Victus.

If I was, I would have joined Vae Victus.

Simple as that. If BWC decides to go down this path as a guild and make these type of requirements mandatory, then that's ok with me, without me.

I joined this guild because Dwayne is a RL friend who asked me to do so, and Amit was one of the coolest people I ever gamed with in DAoC. I have met some other cool people here, and I'll still think they're just as cool if I'm not in BWC.

I definitely don't want to hold BWC back. If our goals in game are different, that's cool, but I would like to know right out in the open.

My friends will understand that.

[Sectoid]

If "winning" is more important than the members having fun priorities are out of whack. Both can be done.
If "friendships" only exist because you are "winning" then they aren't friendships. They are relationships of convenience and greed.

Killets, in this thread you sound like a guy with his priorities on pixels. If that's your thing that's fine, but it ain't mine. It never has been, and it never will be.

There will be no hard feelings from my end, but I am not interested in being a member of Vae Victus.

If I was, I would have joined Vae Victus.

Simple as that. If BWC decides to go down this path as a guild and make these type of requirements mandatory, then that's ok with me, without me.

I joined this guild because Dwayne is a RL friend who asked me to do so, and Amit was one of the coolest people I ever gamed with in DAoC. I have met some other cool people here, and I'll still think they're just as cool if I'm not in BWC.

I definitely don't want to hold BWC back. If our goals in game are different, that's cool, but I would like to know right out in the open.

My friends will understand that.

Sell out

[slythetove]

Sell out

Bought and paid for by the cow in the back.